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Frank Ahrens Craig Cola/washingtonpost.com

With Frank Ahrens
Washington Post Staff Writer

Frank Ahrens covers radio for The Washington Post. His column--"The Listener"--appears every other Tuesday in the Style section. Frank is also a general assignment feature writer, and his reporting subjects have included everything from minivans to murders, from baseball to bandwidth.

If you're wondering about the inner workings of radio in Washington, around the country and on the Web, or want to know what Frank really thinks of minivans, then don't touch that dial . . . um, mouse! Please join us for this discussion:

Here is today's transcript.

Frank Ahrens: Greetings to all on this lovely, near-spring-like day. I must say that it took a Herculean show of strength to turn my motorcycle into The Post parking garage today and not just keep on going to the GW Parkway or some other scene byway and lighting out for the territory ahead, as I believe Huck Finn said, before they start thinkin’ of trying to civilize me.
It must have something to do with the baseball players returning to spring training. Ahh….
At any rate, here I am, at my appointed time and place, ready to talk about radio. Today’s column was a newsy one, so, if you want to talk about any of the items contained therein, swell. If not, swell. As the kids say, we’ll kick it freestyle today.
Let’s go.

Gaithersburg: A response to your column this morning.... Yes,
the WGAY 1260 AM signal is strong today and
yesterday. It was strong for a handful of
days a few weeks ago. Never have I seen and
heard a Major Market AM station ANYWHERE have such chronic signal maladies. Let's hope that their act is finally together. Oh yes,
Happy Birthday, Eddie Gallaher! Glad you can
-temporarily?- be heard widely once more.

Frank Ahrens: Good posting. Always glad to hear from WGAY listeners out there. I think the nostalgia format is an important one from a listener service point of view--as I've pointed out before, radio listeners over 55 really dont' have many places to go anymore. The nostalgia format is about it, assuming I'm not stereotyping older listeners too much (who knows? maybe there's a big over-55 demographic listening to WPGC or Jamn' Oldies that I'm missing...). In some cities, it is sold and promoted very well; someone told me the nostalgia station in Philly is a good one. I like to dip in and hear some Big Band and Rosemary Clooney, Nelson Riddle, etc., from time to time. I hope there will alwasy be a nostalgia station in D.C. and hope the signal gets pumped up.

Burke Va.: How can WTOP claim that more people start their day with WTOP than any other radio station ? I saw the ratings you published and they were not number one.

Frank Ahrens: The genius thing about Arbitron ratings is that they can be interpreted anyway you want them to be and still be truthful, to a measure. For instance, fictional station WXYZ can say, "We're the No. 1 station in morning-drive." and what they've left out is the rest of the sentence: "...among women aged 45-54." WTOP is nowhere near the top of local stations among all listeners, all-day, but, they score near the top in other, and they would argue, more important target audiences. I bet Jim Farley, WTOP news chief, is listening in to this (if he's not too busy launching WTOP2, the station's new Internet-only broadcast) and, if he is, perhaps he can explain the station's ad claim.

Arlington, VA: Well, well, well. Last week, we learned from other sources that the Don & Mike show is soon to be heard in New York City, and of particular note, that their program will originate nearly half the time from NYC, and be carried on a tape delay back home on WJFK. Big news that one of the market's leading programs is kinda leaving town, right? But no mention in your column. Why not?

Frank Ahrens: Well, I guess that's the Big Annoucement they were promising. WJFK's former GM, Ken Stevens, has moved to NY and it's not surprising he'd pick up the show there. This is a big move for Don & Mike, if it's so, and it is a good news story about them leaving town. The reason it wasn't in my column is that I've gotten no official word from them about it.

Northwest DC: Do you listen to the radio on your motorcycle ? If that's how you commute, maybe you don't listen to all that much radio !!!

Frank Ahrens: Oh, no. My pipes are much too loud to listen to radio (also, it would be v. dangerous.). I also own a four-wheel vehicle, and spend mucho time listening to radio there, as well as at home and at work on my computer.

Arlington: This isn't radio related, but I just wanted to say I loved yesterday's review of the 2ge+her movie. I laughed out loud to your line about the 13 yr old girls with their Hello Kitty purses! I watched the movie -more or less- and agree with your assessment. Those guys were totally unbelieveable as a boy band, especially Chris Farley's brother. I saw an actual documentary about the construction of a British boy band a while back, on Bravo I think, which was much more interesting. Will "Whoa", the rival boy band, have an album coming out too? They were way dreamy.

Frank Ahrens: Hahaha! Thanks for the nice words. But don't buy Whoa! CDs or "Yo, girl" perfume (as advertised by Whoa!) because, as you saw in the movie's pivotal gas station scene, Whoa! turn out to be pompous, perhaps illiterate (and later, we find out, lip-synching) jerks!

fellow WVU grad in Baltimore: Hey Frank,

I am unfamiliar with the genre of "cheese-dog pop" that you referred to in yesterday's MTV review. It sounds a bit messier than "bubble-gum pop". Is there an all cheese-dog format on the radio somewhere that I can listen to?

Frank Ahrens: Yes, but you have to eat cheese dogs while listening to it, and it gets the radio's dial all gummy, making it hard to tune. Speaking of which, I'm surprised no one has come up with an "all-boy-band, all-the-time Internet radio station." Seems the marketing platform alone would be tremendous. Cheese-dog pop, btw, is much worse than bubble-gum pop. Bubble-gum pop is harmless; cheese-dog pop is malevolently glutenous.

Herndon, VA: Big Frank: Any "final" word as to what WMAL is going to do with its evenings? I, for one, still miss Chip Franklin. What's the call sign and time for "his" Baltimore station?

Frank Ahrens: WMAL is still auditioning hosts to fill the nighttime slot(s), which they will split into a 7-10 shift and a 10-1 shift, paring Chris Core's shift back to 4-7 to allow him to jettison the ratings-killing 7-8 hour, when folks stop listening to the radio and start watching teevee. Chip can be hear on WBAL at 1090 and on the Internet at www.wbal.com. Chip is on from 9 a.m. to noon. From now on, if I'm Big Frank, you're Little Herndon.

Washington, DC: Is the radio audience growing -because of internet radio, more radio at work, etc.- or declining -because of TV, CD players in cars, etc.-?

Frank Ahrens: Good question. The most recent Arbitron studies show that listening to radio--over the air, on an actual radio--has dropped off about an hour a week, from about 22 hours of average listening time to about 21 hours per week. The quid pro quo is Internet use. As more folks are using the Internet, not just to listen to the radio, though that is included, fewer are listening to the radio. But Internet use is also taking time away from watching TV, going to movies, talking to friends, playing with your kids, reading, gardening, eating or, apparantly, practicing even passable levels of personal hygiene.
The auto is the last big frontier for radio, which is why the satellite radio companies are fast a-work at getting their product in your car. At home, as you point out, folks have lots of entertainment options--TV, Internet, DVD, VCR, etc. In the, you're pretty much limited to the radio and CD. (Notwithstanding the VCR in the back of the minivan for the kids) And comptuer companies are hustling to get their own PCs, with Internet capability, into your car, too. The auto is currently an entertainment vacuum and lots of options will soon be rushing in.

Fairfax, VA: I'm looking for radio stations on the web & remember that you had mentioned a particularly good one - playing a wide variety of classic-alternative rock - i think it was out of buffalo. anyway, i'd be interested in more info on finding radio on the web - a list of good sites, search options, etc. thanks. maureen

Frank Ahrens: Hi, Maureen. Start at three Web sites, which are clearinghouses for Internet radio stations. www.broadcast.com, www.radio-directory.com, and www.yahoo.com, and click through the headings News & Media to Radio to Live Radio. You'll find lots of stations in those sites. Happy hunting. Let me know what good stuff you find...

Laurel, Maryland: Hi, Frank. I almost went with you out to ride the open highways, like Jim McKay of Steppenwolf.

I know WTOP2 should have some success in the .gov-.mil sector. But if you don't want to listen to a C-SPAN clone, you can get the BBC World Service and BBC Radio Five -news and sports talk- over the Internet -see the BBC home page, http:--www.bbc.co.uk and follow the cues-. You can also get the Voice of America's News Now service at http:--www.voa.gov. It's technically not open to Americans, but I believe Americans should know what their government is saying. In this case, they are doing a very good all-news operation, and give foreign listeners a better idea of what goes on in the States than say, Don and Mike.

WB3EBO

Frank Ahrens: This is a good posting. I often forget about letting folks know about VOA--it's worth hearing what our govt. is telling the rest of the world about us. And tnx for the BBC sites...they do excellent news and give a global perspective enen NPR doesn't.

Gaithersburg, MD: Hello Frank,

I moved here a few years ago and started listening to WMAL. It seems like there's a lot of change going on lately. I like Chris Corr better by himself, but I don't understand what's happening at night after him. I liked Chip Franklin, but he's gone, and now it seems there's a new person every night. It's a guy! It's a girl! It's a guy and a girl! People are on, then disappear, and then come back again. What's the deal?

Frank Ahrens: Check out the answer posted earlier--WMAL is auditioning folks to take what will be two nighttime shifts.

Northwest DC: When you report the Arbitron ratings for local radio stations, you report total audience 12 to death. Don't advertisers want demographics that are more targetted ?

Frank Ahrens: Yes, they do. I hope I don't overblow 12 plus. Here's what I do: Every three months when the ratings come out, I run a chart and about a 12-inch story with it. The chart gives the 12plus ratings, because I think that readers are sort of interested in the "horse race" aspect of the ratings--who's No. 1, overall, where were they last time?, etc. Then, in the story, I write who the winners were in the more meaningful categories, like men 25-54, morning drive, evening drive, nighttime, among women, etc. I try to show both sides.

Return of Georgetown: I'm crushing your head. Why didn't the Post style section write anything about the KITH reunion tour? Did YOU go this past week to one of the shows? Which is your favorite KITH? Favorite KITH character?
Radio question: Please tell all: WHY did RNR let John Hall go? Evil! Evil! says Simon, Lord of Darkness.
Return of music question time: King Crimson -first edition- or King Crimson -second edition-? I'm partial to the 2nd: Adrian Belew is one of the great unknown guitar gods. Thanks

Frank Ahrens: Wow. Back on the meds, Geotown. And yes, I get the Kids in the Hall reference. John Hall called me a couple of months ago when he was fired. His complaint was that WRNR was squeezing the playlist, being less free-form, more "corporate," etc. He said he bucked that and also he was called on the carpet, if I recall correctly, for making fun of some of the advertisers on his show. Usually a kiss, or make that, a KITH, of death.
And I agree on Adrian Belew.

Downtown DC: Why is it that the DC area rock stations are so tame? DC101 plays music that belongs on a "mix" type station, WHFS is Z100 minus the dance music -and with horribly untalented, annoying DJ's- and WARW might as well be a CD changer with sme commercials thrown in. No rock station seems to have a standout personality, and definately has no coolness factor. WHFS an alternative.....alternative to what! DC101 "the only station that really rocks"? Natalie Merchant rocks?! WARW 7 song superset? Don't they only play seven songs to begin with?! Your thoughts?

Frank Ahrens: Well, this is quite a shotgun criticism--wide-ranging and deadly. It is true that, over the past few years, WHFS and DC101 have moved much closer in format, toward what the industry calls the "active rock" format. Both are aiming for a young demographic, 18-34, and DC101's general manager told me he was looking to steal the "hip" image back from WHFS. And, yes, with active rock comes soft rock, like Merchant. Also, you're right about Z104-it is the closest thing to a Top 40 station here in town, aiming at the same listenership as WHFS and DC101 but also seeking to get a Latin audience, as well. And now that "alternative" is mainstream, there's no such thing as alternative anymore. As for WARW, you know I carp about the tight playlist and the format of sticking to classic hits instead of going to deep cuts, etc., but the station had its most successful ratings report two weeks ago in a long time. So either it's an aberration or somethign's working.

Stafford VA: Last week on an episode of the Don and Mike show, they tried getting you to come on the air, but you refused. Instead, they said, you preferred to meet with them for lunch, which they immediately turned down. Is this normally how you cozy up to the local radio talent?

Frank Ahrens: I declined to come on the air because, as a journalist, I'm not about to become part of their act. As a journalist, the way I get to know sources, not cozy up to them, is indeed by having lunches and dinners together, as well as by making station visits and working the phones. They are all reporting tools. I've no interest in cozying up to Don & Mike nor any other radio personalities. They make news, I report it.

Woodbridge, VA: First off, why don't Don and Mike -or Charlie Broyhill for that matter- get on this chat- maybe they could explain more in detail about the NYC version of their show. Two, for more Internet listening options, "The Directory" at www.rronline.com and Dave Hughes' DCRTV site can help as well.

Frank Ahrens: Thanks for the postings about Radio & Records and DCRTV. Good reminders. And Don & Mike and their crew, like anyone else, are always welcome on this discussion.

McLean, VA: Hi Frank-

RE: the earlier message about WGAY-AM; how old is Eddie Gallager now?? Once in a while I have tried to tune in WGAY but could hardly hear him through the static -driving though North Arlington-. I'm not a fan of that style of music, just like to hear the veteran
DC announcer now and then.

BTW
How many years has he been on the air?

Frank Ahrens: I think I wrote today that Eddie is 85 and has been on the air in D.C for 53 (!) years.

Gaithersburg MD: I listened to WTOP2 earlier today. I thought they weren't going to be recycling stuff from WTOP? I heard Dave McConnell, lots of CBS people like Mark Noller, and so on, but NO live events like hearings, etc. Meanwhile on C-SPAN Radio, lots of live stuff all the time, no commentary by know-it-alls, and NO COMMERCIALS!! Who needs WTOP2 when C-SPAN is out there?

Dave

Frank Ahrens: Hmmm...thanks for the posting. I haven't had a chance to tune them in yet but will do so this afternoon.

Rockville: Hi Frank,

Not a question, just a comment. Sent you -via email- my review of the music survey I attended last week -which I told you I would send last week...sorry, busy- . I can't be here live for today's discussion. Hope it goes well.

Thanks

Frank Ahrens: Attached is a long, but very very interesting insight into how radio stations do research. Last week, Bryan told us he had been asked to participate in a radio music research session. I asked him to report back to us this week to tell us what it was like. Below is his very excellent report (with a few comments tossed in--fair enuf, he sat thru it). Take a look...this gibes with what I know about music testing.The survey was held in a hotel in Rockville with about
60-70 participants. They were all male, all white,
between the ages of 22-35 (I'm guessing). I found
that to be sorta peculiar until I saw that the five
stations that were being tested for were WARW (94.7),
WHFS (99.1), WRQX (107.3), WWDC (101.1), and WWZZ
(104.1). Obviously the stations doing the testing are
targeting a certain demographic. We gathered in a
large conference room and sat at long tables for about
2 ? hours. Each seat had a small hand-held device
(looked like a walkie talkie) that had a dial on it
(like a volume knob) and an LCD display. The dial went
from 0-100.

A guy (the sole moderator) at the front of the room
had a table set up with speakers, computers and CDs.
The hand-held devices had antenna on them that
transmitted our every movement from 0-100 to his
computer that took the readings and created a chart
(we were told, but we never got to see it though) that
looked something like a medical EKG chart. His
constant refrain was "keep those dials moving so we
know what your thinking every moment, don't leave them
set (on a number) too long. The computer takes a
reading of every dial every second."

We were told that a series of song snippets would be
played. They were interested in knowing a) whether or
not you have ever heard the song before, and b) how
much you would like or dislike hearing each of these
songs on the radio today. We could rate each song on a
scale of 0-100. Zero meant we never heard the song
before, 1-20 strongly disliked it, 20-40 disliked the
song, 40-60 neutral, 60-80 liked the song, 80-100
loved the song.

Before the testing started we were first asked some
general questions about DC radio and our listening
habits. (I took notes for you!) and asked to use the
hand-held device to rate our views.

Regarding our listening habits, the two questions
were:
1. How many hours a week do you listen to your
favorite station (choose only from the 5 stations).
2. How much do you like the stations listed. Rate on a
scale of 1-100 (1-20 strongly dislike, 20-40 dislike,
40-60 neutral, 60-80 like, 80-100 love)

Regarding DC radio, the questions were:
1. Is DC radio getting better?
2. Is DC radio getting worse?
3. What morning show do you like most (from the 5
allotted stations only, ?course I LOVE Stern, but I
couldn't express that)
4. Which station had the best songs for my tastes
5. Which station had too many commercials
6. Which station was good to listen to at work
7. Which station's TV commercials have we seen
recently
8. Which station has sent us stuff in the mail (i.e.,
junk mail)
9. Which station has sent us faxes telling us to
listen (junk faxes)
10. Which stations might have called us to listen to
them (egad, telemarketers!!).

For the above questions, instead of rating 0-100, each
station was given a number from 1-5. (i.e, if my
answer was 94.7 I put the dial at 1, if it was 99.1 I
put the dial at 2, etc.) For answers like none of the
above, we put the dial at 10. All our responses were
transmitted to the moderator's computer. Obviously, he
was interested in finding out which station's
marketing attempts were successful and what kinds were
the most successful (i.e, radio, print, TV ads, faxes,
phone, etc).

After all this, we finally started with the music. He
inserted CD's into the player, each with about 20-30
snippets on them. Each snippet was the most famous
"hook" of a song. Each lasted about 5-6 seconds. We
were too move our dial however we wanted based on our
opinion of the song. There were approximately 10 CDs
of song snippets. I recognized almost every song
played, the only ones I didn't know were the
occasional rap/hip-hop tune, but that was maybe 3 or 4
all night. The rest was everything you already hear on
the radio. Really disappointing because it shows that
these 5 stations are intent on just playing the same
limited set lists and just playing the most popular
songs on these set lists. So much for dynamic radio.

Interestingly, at the end of the night we were asked
to comment on some particular questions regarding
Internet radio (and one question about our opinion of
that dope on DC101, Elliot Seagal and the Gang's
morning show...obviously, you know my bias here...I
find him HIGHLY annoying and his shtick is old hat).
The Internet radio questions were:

1. Do we visit Internet Radio stations?
2. Do we visit any radio stations' web sites?
3. What is our favorite radio station web site?
4. Have we ever tried Internet radio stations?
5. Have we ever bought products from commercial web
sites (eBay, Amazon, etc)

Again, we were told to rate these on a scale of 1-5 (1
is highest, 5 lowest or 1 = yes, 5 = no). For question
3 we were given a number for each station (like I
mentioned above). Zero was for none of the above/can't
answer.

Finally, we were asked to listen to 5 CD's that
contained about 8-10 song snippets and asked "Which
station would play this kind of music"....it was again
obvious that they were interested in gauging "brand"
identification and loyalty. To me, at least, it was
easy to tell which songs were the "identify" of 99.1
HFS vs. which song sounded like 107.3. Again, I am a
long time DC listener so I am pretty aware of the
music on each station.

After we finished, we were each paid $50 for our time.
It was cool but again I fear that DC radio is one big
homogenized mess chasing ad $$$ and to hell with us
listeners. It's all about selling air time by playing
the most banal music for the masses and gathering as
many people as possible to listen to their ads. No
wonder these five stations sound more and more alike.
(My two cents).

Alexandria: Which radio station is covering the McCain-Bush primary races tonight ?

Frank Ahrens: WTOP and WMAL will be doing news reports, of course, and I bet C-Span (90.1 FM) will do lots of stuff, too.

Arlington, VA: Hi Frank - good column this morning. Question: do you get to listen to Imus in the a.m.? If so, is it just me or is he getting grumpier by the day? I know that's his nature but the upcoming election has made him quite surly - esp. since his man didn't win in S.C. last week? I'm going to stop listening to him if this keeps up! Mornings are tough enough! Have a great week.

Frank Ahrens: Thanks. I don't know that I've ever heard Don Imus sound cheerful or anything like it. But I have heard from listeners recently who say they think he's going on too much about his ranch in New Mexico, his son, Wyatt, etc. He might indeed be upset about McCain losing in South Carolina, as he was pretty much the official candidate of the Don Imus show.

Northeast DC: What radio station carries Washington Post columnist Bob Levey ?

Frank Ahrens: Bob does commentaries, I believe they're midday, on WTOP (1500 AM, 107.7 FM).

Germantown MD.: Help me Frankie ! I started listening to WTOP for the traffic but now I find I like the news as well. I am turning into my FATHER !!!!!! Help !!!

Frank Ahrens: Call for help when you start identifying with the anchors grousing, in a cheerful way, about the many inconveniences of parenthood.

Rockville: I found WTOP2 at wtopnews.com and think it is a welcome addition for news junkies. Are there any other local Internet-only radio stations ?

Frank Ahrens: Yes, but not news ones. A music one that springs to mind is www.zero24-7.org, the music station of zero population growth, where former WHFS deejays Weasel and Mark Daly spin tunes.

Washington, DC: Was it difficult to install training-wheels on a Harley?

Frank Ahrens: Hahaha! Harleys scare me---too big, also, not a lot of get-up-and-go for your buck (they're expensive and are good for hiway crusing, not quick acceleration). I've got a Honda Nighthawk 700; not quite a crotch-rocket, but some zip to it.

U92 Dave: Frank,

WTOP2 has broken off for one live press event so far today. The previous poster was incorrect about what other stuff would be carried by WTOP2. Promos on the web site and stories by Howard Dicus this morning clearly indicated that AP radio news would be the "glue" holding everything together and that WTOP and CBS features would also be carried. I happen to like it - no disappointment at all!

Frank Ahrens: Thanks, U92 Dave, a fellow from back in the day at WVU. I've got tune in this aft...

Reston VA: Hi Frank -
Being a WVA native, did you listen to WDVE in Pittsburgh alot growing up? Do you remember "Jimmy and Steve in the Morning" -sometimes theyre funny, sometimes theyre boring...- :- Just wondering, I used to love that station but now it just sounds like the DC classic rock station, which is just sad and painfully lame and boring.

Frank Ahrens: Actually, when I was in college at WVU in Morgantown, we used to listen to WDVE. The station is a heritage rocker, and, like others of its ilk, DC101, for instance, has change with the times.

Maryland: Frank, this is a side of you we've not seen much. That here's who I am here's what I do shaddup speech was good. I never noticed the way your eyes kind of sparkle in this light.

Frank Ahrens: I'm getting in fighting trim. Must be all the body blows I've been absorbing from Don & Mike. Call me "Hurricane" Ahrens.

Papacosma, Brooklyn: In your opinion, what's been the worst idea for a gimmicky programming idea? For instance, I remember a D.C. radio station fifteen years ago or so that only played LP comedy routines. Not a bad idea, necessarily, but how badly does one need to listen to Shecky Greene while stuck in traffic? Not me, sir. Not me.

Frank Ahrens: Hiya, Katy. How about just a loop of "Take my wife, please" over and over while you're stuck in traffic? Pretty soon, you'd be doing a "Falling Down," a la Michael Douglas.

Arlington, VA: Hi Frank,

I've been interested in getting a shortwave radio for some time. Any place I can find a listing of SW stations and their frequencies?

Love the chats, keep up the good work!

Frank Ahrens: I just went to the Internet and Asked Jeeves: "Where can I get a listing of shortwave radio frequenices?" I got a bunch of Web pages--too many to list. I suggest you take a look first on the Internet...try www.ask.com, the Ask Jeeves metasearch engine. Also, let's throw it out to our listeners, some of whome are shortwave enthusiasts, and they can get back to us next week.

Frank Ahrens: All righty, folks. That's going to do it for today. Thanks for a wide-ranging, interesting discussion. Sorry I couldn't get to everyone's question; as always, we have a good-sized group. But tune in again next week. If I've missed your question for a couple of weeks, note that next time you send one in and I'll bounce it to the top of the queue.
See you next week.

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